Agenda and minutes

Overview & Scrutiny Committee
Thursday, 14th November, 2019 7.30 pm

Venue: Room 6, Civic Centre, Silver Street, Enfield, EN1 3XA. View directions

Contact: Stacey Gilmour 

Items
No. Item

347.

WELCOME & APOLOGIES

Minutes:

Councillor Erbil welcomed all attendees to the meeting. Apologies for lateness were received from Councillors Boztas and Lappage.

348.

DECLARATIONS OF INTEREST

Members of the Council are invited to identify any disclosable pecuniary, other pecuniary or non-pecuniary interests relevant to the items on the agenda.

 

Minutes:

There were no declarations of interest.

349.

CALL IN: QUARTERLY CORPORATE PERFORMANCE REPORT pdf icon PDF 143 KB

To receive and consider a report from the Director of Law and Governance outlining details of a call-in received on the Cabinet  Decision taken on Quarterly Corporate Performance Report (Report No. 141)

 

The decision that has been called in was a Cabinet Decision taken on 16 October 2019 and included on the Publication of Decision List No: 34/19-20 (List Ref: 1/34/19-20) issued on 18 October 2019.

 

It is proposed that consideration of the call-in be structured as follows:

· Brief outline of the reasons for the call-in by representative (s) of the members who   have called in the decision

· Response to the reasons provided for the Call-in by a Cabinet Member responsible for taking the decision

· Debate by Overview and Scrutiny Committee and agreement of action to be taken

 

Additional documents:

Minutes:

NOTED that this item had been deferred to a meeting of OSC on Thursday 21 November 2019.

350.

CALL IN: THE FUTURE DELIVERY OF CLEANING SERVICES - COUNCIL CORPORATE BUILDINGS pdf icon PDF 143 KB

To receive and consider a report from the Director of Law and Governance outlining details of the two call-ins received on the CabinetDecision taken on The Future of Cleaning Services – Council Corporate Buildings (Report No. 142 )

 

The decision that has been called in was a Cabinet Decision taken on 16 October 2019 and included on the Publication of Decision List No: 34/19-20 (List Ref: 8/34/19-20) issued on 19 October 2019.

 

It is proposed that consideration of the call-in be structured as follows:

· Brief outline of the reasons for the call-in by representative (s) of the members who   have called in the decision

· Response to the reasons provided for the Call-in by a Cabinet Member responsible for taking the decision

· Debate by Overview and Scrutiny Committee and agreement of action to be taken

 

Please also see the Part 2 agenda

Additional documents:

Minutes:

The Committee received a report from the Director of Law and Governance outlining details of the two call-ins received on the cabinet Decision taken on The Future of Cleaning Services - Council Corporate Buildings (Report No: 142).

 

NOTED that this report was considered in conjunction with the information in the part 2 agenda.

 

Councillor Erbil reminded everyone of the Purdah guidance and that discussion on the call-ins should not be a political debate.  An argument would need to be made to persuade members to revert the Cabinet decision back for their reconsideration, or the decision should stand. She also advised that Councillor Gunawardena (who was in the audience observing the meeting) would be asked to leave the room for the part 2 discussions as he was a Director of Enfield Norse. The press would also be asked to leave the meeting for the part 2 agenda.

 

Councillor Erbil invited Councillor Levy to give an outline of the reasons for the first call-in.

NOTED

 

1.    Councillor Levy set out the reasons for calling in the decision:

·         The reasons for call-in were very intensive, with nine questions raised, six of which would be addressed under the Part 2 agenda.

·         Councillor Levy had attended the Cabinet meeting when this report had originally been discussed and not one question had been raised. He was therefore concerned that decisions were not taking place in an open and transparent way and he questioned the robustness of the governance process.

·         The report refers to a conservative assessment of future cleaning needs. However, these detailed future cleaning needs have not been discussed with Enfield Norse to make a reasonable comparison.

·         The report wrongly assumes that the joint ventures may not terminate. The full cost of the probable termination has not been considered.

·         Although around 140 individual members of staff (up to 60 FTE) shall be considered under the TUPE process, Enfield Norse have over 300 employees. The full status and costs associated with the remaining employees have not been discussed in the report.

 

Councillor Boztas joined the meeting at this point.

 

2.    Councillor Maguire, Cabinet Member, Finance & Procurement and Mark Bradbury, Director of Property & Economy responded to the reasons as follows:

 

·         Councillor Maguire was surprised that this call-in was about what questions had or hadn’t been asked with regards to the report and felt that this showed that it was a very clear and in-depth report which spoke for itself.

·         The contract had been considered in great detail and this was evident from the information provided in the Part 1 and 2 reports.

·         As an Authority we have a responsibility to set good and clear standards of employment therefore bringing this contract back in-house will entitle some of the lowest paid employees in the borough to benefit from decent employment conditions in line with existing Council staff. This is good employment practice and the right thing to do.

·         This option is the only one that also allows alignment of employee terms and conditions with those of Council employees,  ...  view the full minutes text for item 350.

351.

DATES OF FUTURE MEETINGS

To note the dates of future meetings as follows:

 

Business meetings of OSC

· Thursday 19 December 2019 (Budget meeting)

· Thursday 13 February 2020

· Thursday 2 April 2020

 

Provisional Call-In dates

· Thursday 28 November 2019

· Thursday 30 January 2020

· Thursday 6 February 2020

· Wednesday 4 March 2020

· Thursday 26 March 2020

· Tuesday 28 April 2020

Minutes:

NOTED the dates of future meetings as follows:

 

Business meetings of OSC

· Thursday 19 December 2019 (Budget meeting)

· Thursday 13 February 2020

· Thursday 2 April 2020

 

Call-In date

·         Thursday 21 November 2019

 

Provisional Call-In dates

· Thursday 28 November 2019

· Thursday 30 January 2020

· Thursday 6 February 2020

· Wednesday 4 March 2020

· Thursday 26 March 2020

· Tuesday 28 April 2020

 

Concerns were raised regarding the recent addition to meeting dates that had not previously been scheduled in the Council calendar to accommodate individuals who had not been able to attend pre-scheduled meetings. This is not how things have been done or should be done going forward.

 

Members also expressed their concerns at the date of the OSC budget meeting which was now scheduled to take place very close to Christmas on the 19th December 2019 and whether this date would affect public attendance for this very important meeting. Councillor Erbil advise that all OSC members will be provided with details of how this meeting will be advertised by email very shortly.

Action: Claire Johnson, Head of Governance & Scrutiny

352.

EXCLUSION OF PRESS AND PUBLIC

To consider, if necessary, passing a resolution under Section 100A (4) of the

Local Government Act 1972 excluding the press and public from the meeting

for the item of business listed in Part 2 of the agenda on the grounds that it

will involve the likely disclosure of exempt information as defined in those

paragraphs of Part 1 Schedule 12A to the Act (as amended by the Local

Government (Access to Information) (Variation) Order 2006), as are listed on

the agenda (Members are asked to refer to the Part 2 agenda).

 

Minutes:

Resolved in accordance with the principles of Section 100A (4) of the Local Government Act 1972 to exclude the press and public from the meeting for the following item of business on the grounds that it involved the likely disclosure of exempt information as defined in paragraph 3 of the Part 1 of Schedule 12A to the Act (as amended by the Local Government (Access to Information) (Variation) Order 2006.

353.

Call In of Decision: The Future Delivery of Cleaning Services - Council Corporate Buildings

Attached for consideration as part of the Call-in on this item, is the Part 2 Cabinet report considered as part of the decision taken on 18 October 2019.

 

The report should be read in conjunction with the Cabinet report attached as Appendix 1 to the Call-In report on the Part 1 agenda.

 

(This document contains exempt information as defined in Paragraph 3 (information relating to the financial or business affairs of any particular person (including the authority holding that information) of Schedule 12A to the Local Government Act 1972 as amended).

 

Please see the Part 1 agenda.

Additional documents:

Minutes:

The Committee received the report on the Call-In of Decision: The Future Delivery of Cleaning Services – Council Corporate Buildings which had been included in the part 2 section of the agenda.

 

NOTED

The information was considered in conjunction with the report on the part 1 agenda.

 

The Chair invited Councillor Levy to outline the reasons for the first call-in.

 

Councillor Levy reiterated his reasons for call-in as detailed in the Part 1 minutes above.

 

Other points discussed included:

·         Information and details relating to the findings of the Internal Audit Report were provided.

·         The share of profit and financial implications were discussed, and figures provided.

·         Figures relating to rental income were discussed.

 

The Chair invited Councillor Hockney to outline the reasons for the second call-in.

 

Councillor Hockney reiterated his reasons for call-in as detailed in the Part 1 minutes above.

 

Other points discussed included:

·         TUPE costings were provided and further details discussed.

·         Discussions took place relating to the different tender options.